Right now, trying to figure out being a friend.
Can an adult man and adult woman be friends? Even if one of them is married? If they're both married? To other people? Just friends? Does this get in the way of a marital relationship?
I'm currently struggling with this issue. No, the answer isn't obvious. See, as much as I'm usually closer with my gal friends then guy friends, I'm used to talking with people of both genders. Do I stop being close with my guy friend who is engaged? Do I assume that these friendships only last until marriage?
From what I can tell, most of the time it works because I don't dress provocatively and I keep shomer negiah. My guy friends don't get hugs. If they get huffy, then I tell them they have cooties. ;)
Still, what do you guys think? Is this possible? Has it ever worked for you? Would you be annoyed if your spouse had close friends of the other gender? Why?
You say its not simple but it is simple. It is like one loose thread that keeps unravelling.Im speaking from experience but id rather not elaborate. I think that no good can come from being "friends" with a married member of the opposite gender. Sooner or later you will start comparing them to your spouse. Maybe subconsciously. And your spouse is meant to be your best friend. Yes of course you should have many other friends too. But of the same gender.
ReplyDeleteIt is simple. You dont need problems for u or him. Let him get close to his wife and u fade from the picture. And soon you'll find your own best friend. And u wouldnt want him having a female friend on the side.
True. That makes sense.
DeleteBut what do you mean by a "female friend on the side?" A girlfriend on the side I can understand, but a friend? I'd been hoping to become friends with the wife as well.
It would be different if you were also married, then you could be couples friends. But say he introduced you to his kallah and said 'this is so-and-so, a friend of mine. I want you two to get to know each other.' You don't think she may be even the teeniest bit jealous or resentful, since you knew her chosson before her and might know him more than her or in different ways? You can say 'friend' as many times as you want. It doesn't change the nature of the friendship or the fact that a single guy or girl friend does not belong in someone elses relationship.
DeleteSo, it's my fault I'm single? ;)
DeleteI don't see how I could know him better than she - she's his childhood friend. Just to make sure I understand you, is the reason you're saying I should disappear is because I may make the kallah unhappy? Or because I won't be healthy for their bond?
:) I didn't say that. But say you keep your distance for the first little while that they are married cuz it is new for them and they are getting to know each other. And then maybe in a few months get yourself invited over for a shabbos meal. As long as you are friends with THEM as a couple, it is different than you hanging out with the guy just the two of you.
DeleteI think it is both of those things you mentioned. And as you said yourself- "I'm just highly suspicious of a man who's engaged, wants to be friends, and calls me at odd hours saying he misses me and starting to chat." He should be calling his kallah late at night, not you.
Overall, I don't think it is a good idea at all. Better to gently let it go now than have problems late on, for you or him.
Good point. I'll keep it in mind.
DeleteI agree with Altie... Personally I don't have any guy friends (although since I dorm in college, I casually speak to the guys in the Hillel on Shabbat but i wouldn't meet up with them one-on-one to hang out) and I would mind if my husband had any close female friends.
ReplyDeleteI want my husband to be my only close guy friend and I want to be his only close female friend.
Let's say a married guy had many close female friends, if he had a fight with his wife and talked to one of them about it, it would be extremely unhealthy for the relationship. Also for many other reasons - best to be friendly but to keep distance... It will happen to all of us one day iyh :-) and when we meet our other half it won't hurt as much that we 'lost' those friends.
However, I have to admit that I'm not speaking from experience. Except for the guys I dated, I've never had a close guy friend (I've made sure not to) and do not know what it is like to loose one, so my advice is very objective.
Have a great day :-) and keep smiling - nothing is ever as bad as it seems!
Most of my guy friends are the guys I end up chatting with in the Hillel. They're closer to friendlike than real friends though.
DeleteIf someone has a fight with their spouse and talks to people who aren't in the relationship, of either gender, I can't see that being very healthy either.
Almost all of my close guy friends are from when I was a lot younger. Good on you.
Thanks! You keep smiling too.
It depends. Every person is different.
ReplyDeleteYou have to draw the line, and never cross it, and if you feel that he is crossing that line, then say something to him.
But it is indeed possible to have normal friendships with the opposite gender, regardless the relationship level, shomer level, etc.
But if you feel that you cannot deal with being friends with them, without crossing that line, then maybe you aren't capable of it?
Nothing against you, but as I started with, everyone is different...
I'm just highly suspicious of a man who's engaged, wants to be friends, and calls me at odd hours saying he misses me and starting to chat.
DeleteIn defense of the odd hours thing, his job lasts until about 11:30 pm.
O.o
DeleteGet out. Get out now.
I've been trying. This post is me wondering if he's right, and I'm wrong.
DeleteI said, at the time, that I probably won't still be friends. He didn't see any reason this shouldn't be possible. So, being me, got off the phone quickly, thought I might be in the wrong and decided to wonder.
I'd agree that no, it's unwise. Might you see instances where it "works"? Yes, but I'd say it's like running into a busy street. You might emerge unscathed; that doesn't make it a good idea. Boundaries: an excellent thing.
ReplyDeleteThis is reminding me of the classic midrash on Shlomo and the three mitzvoth of kings.
DeleteI don't have a problem staying friends with women I was friends with when I was single but my wife seems to...
ReplyDeleteWould you have a problem with Mrs. MGI staying friends with guys she'd known before she married you?
DeleteIt's actually in Pirkei Avos: I just heard Rabbi Fohrman explain it.
ReplyDelete5. Yosi ben Yochanan of Jerusalem said: Let your house be wide open and let the poor be members of thy household; and do not talk much with women. This was said about one's own wife; how much more so about the wife of one's neighbor.
If one's house is open to the poor, then the poor women may come to idolize him, and that is not good for his ego or his marriage. Therefore, the man has to set boundaries, not even talking too much to his wife in public, to set an example.
If it is not good for a married man to get chummy with other women, then you should keep your distance. Times are different, and we are talking about friendships, but his priority friendship should be his spouse.
Yep. I remember this one.
DeleteAlthough I do mostly agree with this one, I have to wonder: does this only apply to women whom he becomes friends with after he gets married? Only to ones who idolize him? What about chums he's had before? It's not like he's getting closer to them..?
I think it's better not to start! You can still be friendly, but getting into deep conversations may not be the best way to go.
DeleteNo. I have had friends who were girls. Then they got married. Sure, if we see each other we say hi. We're still FRIENDLY, but not friends. That friendship you two had needs to fade. It won't be healthy for his marriage. Friendship with the opposite gender is ALWAYS a temporary thing, unless it ends in marriage. Oh, it's possible to try and make it not temporary, but it's downright unhealthy, and much more will be lost by both rather than gained.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. I like the clearer definition.
DeleteThis seems to be the only issue that most bloggers actually agree on. Wow.
ReplyDelete